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Regional Blogs, Guest Blogs

Guest Blog: Cardiff Blogs “For Love Not Money”

By the Cardiff Blogs Team

Cardiff Blogs returns on September 5 with the next bloggers meet up following the summer social in July.

Cardiff Blogs logo

Under new management and after seeking (extensive) feedback from both regulars and newcomers to the Cardiff Blogs scene, the team will host “For Love Not Money” – showcasing people in Cardiff who are doing creative and cool things online for the absolute fun of it.

Amy Davies of Cardiff Arcades Project fame will be sharing her experiences about the project and the popular blog that accompanies it; what inspired her to start it, what she’s enjoyed about writing and developing it (including her exhibition at Big Little City:Cardiff ) and where will she take it next.

Also speaking will be Jeremy Rees from Radio Cardiff who will be talking about how they have got involved with the community and with local bloggers.

Group photo from Summer Social (Photo: Daniel Grosvenor)

The meetup will be held at the new Jolyon’s bar on Cathedral Road – come along from 7pm, speakers will be starting at 7.45pm.

There’s free Wi-Fi, so tweeting during the event is encouraged (just try to keep it clean, please!) The hashtag is #cdfblogs.

A relatively new venture for Cardiff Blogs, we will also be running a ‘blogging surgery’ beforehand (5pm-7pm) for anyone who wants help with their blog. Bring your laptop along and we’ll do our best to help with anything we can; from choosing the best site to host your blog, making your existing blog look pretty or fixing that bit which has always bugged you.

At the last meetup we mentioned the fantastic Give and Make Up, a non-profit initiative whose sole purpose is to get everyday essentials into the hands of women and children who have escaped domestic violence. At the September meetup there will be a collection point if you wish to bring along any unused toiletries, make-up and baby products you would like to donate. You can read more about Give and Make Up, it’s efforts in Wales and why we’re getting involved over on Cardiff Blogs.

As always, our events are free to attend and open to everyone, so if you’re not a blogger (or not from Cardiff) then don’t worry! Come along and pick up some tips and tricks from some of the finest bloggers Wales has to offer – it may be the push you need to finally start that blog you’ve been thinking about?

Or you may want to just come along and listen to some great talks and chat to others who love bloggers/blogging/reading blogs as much as you do.

Either way, register for your ticket here

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Discussion

24 thoughts on “Guest Blog: Cardiff Blogs “For Love Not Money”

  1. After reading this article, I looked to learn more about this, but have to say I was skeptical to encounter this – http://imgur.com/ZpNJh . One could argue this might be a sideline project, but most things online work in terms of visits and hits and promotion of other elements from those visits and hits, so it could definitely be argued that this is done for love AND money, or if not that, perhaps just money

    Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 12:12 pm
    • Why shouldn’t we make money from our blogs? In America its quite common for people to make a living just by blogging yet over here its sneered at as though you’re some sort of “blogging” traitor because you want to make money from it. I make money from my blog and I’m proud to do so.

      I think Amy has the right idea to sell her prints, no point in having a talent like hers and then just sitting back and musing how wonderful it is without using it to her utmost advantage. She’s going to need a new camera at some point in the future why not allow those who enjoy her site help contribute towards that in some way. It’s not as if she’s begging for money, she’s selling a product.

      These Cardiff blog meets are great (despite the fact they seem to be quite cliquey – a reason why I’ve only ever been to one) but how about having some practical topics such as how to make money from your blog, how to get more hits, more comments etc

      Posted by @rachaelphillips | August 23, 2011, 2:27 pm
      • Hey Rachael

        The aim is definitely not to sneer at the thought of people making money from a blog, I think it was more to highlight the success of projects that have started out of love and have been, quite frankly, rather hard work – the bloggers have been rewarded for their efforts in time, just perhaps not in monetary terms.

        I’m hoping that Amy (and I think she has said something similar in her response to Peter in the comments) will go on to highlight how she has made money recently (prints etc) from the blog but that it has taken time and wasn’t an option from the very beginning, so projects or ventures like these shouldn’t be entered into lightly or at all, if someone is hoping to gain financially. As you say, she certainly should make money off her talents, wherever possible!

        Why not come along to the meet up and share your thoughts following these talks on how you make money from your blog … could be an interesting discussion and one in which I think a lot of bloggers would be keen to hear!

        Liz

        Posted by Liz Rawlins (@lizmrawlins) | August 23, 2011, 2:47 pm
      • Thanks Rachael 🙂

        I was going to include some elements of this in my talk – including the fact that you should never go into blogging *just* to make money as you will inevitably fail. And I also think it’s a good idea to build up a fanbase/readership before you do so, so people can see you’re genuinely passionate about a subject.

        I also think that it’s obvious when someone really cares about their subject, if they have no interest it really does come through.

        One of the main reasons I set up a print sale was because so many people asked me for it. I honestly had not thought about it until at my exhibition when several people asked me if I was going to start selling. Knowing that the market was there, I thought I’d give it a go – and I’d like to think that the prints are offered at reasonable prices too – not moneygrabbing ones.

        Amy

        Posted by amydavies | August 23, 2011, 2:50 pm
      • Hello Rachael. Nobody is saying don’t make money from your blog, and nobody is saying why you shouldn’t make money from your blog. I am saying, however, that to do a talk entitled ‘For Love Not The Money’, whilst trying to generate money (for whatever reason – a holiday or running costs) is just confusing and duplicitous.

        Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 3:19 pm
    • There is a clear difference between making enough money to be a ‘not for loss’ blogger (as Amy aims to be – someone who can cover their project costs) and a blogger who is making a profit (and there aren’t many of them to be fair). Although I do agree with you that the name of the meeting is perhaps a little off the mark.

      Maybe it should have been For Love Not Profit.

      But that sounds rubbish 😉

      Posted by Rob Williams (@BobJWilliams) | August 23, 2011, 2:39 pm
  2. Hi Peter,

    You’re right – I have recently started to include prints for sale on my website.

    This is to help me continue doing the project, which I have never made any money from.

    That said, the few pounds I make from the sale of such prints is nothing compared with the hours of dedication and love I have put into this project in the past.

    I dread to think how many hours I have spent working on this, but it has got to be in the hundreds, if not thousands of hours. I do know that I have taken over 10,000 pictures since the work has started.

    As a freelance journalist and photographer, if I was to earn money/charge for this level of work, I’d probably be expecting a full-time wage. To say that I do this project for money is incredibly naive. If I was only interested in money, I’d have packed up the project a long time ago to concentrate my efforts on paid-for work, but because I love doing it and am keen to spread the word about the arcades I keep doing it.

    If you attend the blog event, I am intending to highlight areas in which you CAN make a bit of money from doing projects such as this, for I believe that a bit of financial reward for the dedication you put into something is highly deserved. However, I will also be keen to point out that doing something like this with your only interest being making a profit would be incredibly difficult, if not foolish.

    To date, I’ve probably made about £50-£100 from this project. But I’ve also spent a lot of money on doing this project. There’s the money I spent creating leaflets to promote the exhibition. The money I spent on creating prints for the exhibition. The money I spent on buying a domain name. The money I spent on new equipment to help me carry on. Do I need to go on? I have also been working on this since February. If I’m doing this for money only, then I really am wasting my time 😉

    Thanks for the feedback though – should make an interesting debate on the night!

    Amy

    Posted by amydavies | August 23, 2011, 2:25 pm
  3. ‘Should make an interesting debate’ is short hand, in my experience, for ‘let’s agree to disagree’, but the fact is the talk is entitled ‘For Love Not the Money’. However, in your blog response above, you confirm that if you want to continue doing the project, you need to start making money off it (not for yourself, but perhaps for running costs). So ‘For Love Not The Money’ just isn’t accurate, worse, it is misleading.

    Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 3:14 pm
    • Peter, the idea of the talk was to showcase some projects that people have set up out of love for their subjects, rather that purely for monetary gain ie someone thinking “I should do X, there’s money to be made from that!”. Amy was a perfect example of someone who set up a project not because she was EXPECTING to make money, but because she genuinely loves the arcades. We wanted to showcase her because we think a) the project is great and b) because if you work hard at something it’s possible to be rewarded.

      I understand your point about the title, but I don’t believe Amy has been misleading and “for love not money except if you manage to cover a fraction of your running costs” was a bit wordy 😉

      Posted by Sarah | August 23, 2011, 3:36 pm
      • Hello all. Based on the comments from Rob and Sarah, it seems the talk title has been selected based on how good it sounded, despite being inaccurate. Why not change it if you know this? I would sound better and be more marketable if I was called Maximillian, but my name is Peter and Peter is accurate. To clarify: 1) I am not saying it is nefarious or wrong to make money from blogs, 2) I am not saying Amy’s hard work on an amazing blog should go without recompense or funding (or, indeed, even profit. I am, however, saying ‘For Love Not The Money’ is a ridiculously false title for a talk where generating money was posted in a tweet next to the tweet promoting the talk. If anyone here can debate this particular fact, I am happy to continue responding, otherwise I look forward to being referenced as a ‘healthy debate’ footnote in what will be an inappropriately titled talk at a Cardiff Blogs event.

        Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 3:50 pm
    • I don’t think the title is misleading as you put it, the project started, and continues out of ‘love’ not ‘money’ – so it is an accurate title. If Amy didn’t love doing it, it would not be the success it is today – it would not have been showcased at an exhibition (where again, no money was made) and it would not continue, as Amy has stated in her response to you, it has been a lot of long hours and a lot of hard work. She certainly isn’t continuing with it for the money (as she doesn’t make any aside from very recently selling some prints) she continues with it out of love.

      She does it for ‘love’ not ‘money’ – there’s your title.

      It’s not perfect no, and as Rob points out, perhaps ‘For Love Not Profit’ is slightly more accurate, but it doesn’t really have the same ring to it, does it?

      L

      Posted by Liz Rawlins (@lizmrawlins) | August 23, 2011, 3:40 pm
    • Haven’t read the whole thread but…

      She’s not doing it “for the money”. Even if she was making thousands the main reason would be for the love of it.

      Not misleading really.

      Even if it was “for the money”, maybe she wanted to say that actually, its damn hard to do a project of that scale for love alone. Two sides to the coin ehy.

      Posted by Gareth Rees (@_gareth) | August 23, 2011, 11:40 pm
  4. @Liz I didn’t meant the Cardiff event was sneering at it, it’s just in the UK as a whole we aren’t used to this whole “blogging for profit”. I’d disagree with Bob too, there are a *lot* of bloggers who are making a decent wage from blogging just perhaps not UK based.

    Re Peter I don’t see what difference it makes to you whether someone is blogging for money or not. Her blog isn’t *actually* making any money. Her prints are. She’s a journalist and photographer, part of her being a photographer is to surely “sell her prints”. Plus (not that its any concern of yours) she has already said that she doesn’t really make a profit from selling the prints so therefore she isn’t doing it just for the money is she? She’s doing it for the love of the project too.
    The fact it was an individual project that has grown and developed into something potentially commercial is a great thing and we should be celebrating that rather than knocking it down. She’s not forcing people to buy the prints so if you don’t want to contribute to her project…don’t buy the print, simple solution to your problem.

    Posted by @rachaelphillips | August 23, 2011, 3:24 pm
    • Hello Rachel. See my response higher up. I think you’re prepared to argue the case for profit / funding / running cost generation from blogs, but it is a case you do not need to argue with me, as I agree with you. What I am saying is obviously ridiculous is calling a talk ‘For Love Not The Money’, when it is apparent – for whatever reason (self-funding, running costs, etc) money is required by Amy Davies, the speaker, in terms of her blog activities, based on the kind offer of 20% off prints on her other website. Rachel – in response to ‘don’t but the print, simple solution to your problem’ is quite an immature means of summarising my issue, ‘if you don’t like it, go away’. Well, that isn’t quite how society works as I’m sure you appreciate.

      Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 3:54 pm
  5. Hello all. Liz, Rob and Sarah all focus in their replies on how the title wouldn’t sound as good, rather than telling me I am incorrect in my observations about how money is a factor in blogging, notably in the case of Amy Davies. I think my point is therefore proved, that it is a misnoma chosen for marketing snappiness rather than accuracy. Good luck with the talk and thank you for a healthy debate.

    Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 3:56 pm
    • Hi Peter, I think I also made the point in my reply as to why I think the title is not misleading for further reasons other than because it wouldn’t sound as good:

      “The project started, and continues out of ‘love’ not ‘money’ ….”

      “If Amy didn’t love doing it, it would not be the success it is today … as Amy has stated in her response to you, it has been a lot of long hours and a lot of hard work… She certainly isn’t continuing with it for the money (as she doesn’t make any…”

      “She does it for ‘love’ not ‘money’ – there’s your title.”

      etc etc….

      Thanks

      Posted by Liz Rawlins (@lizmrawlins) | August 23, 2011, 4:05 pm
    • @Rachel – Still very rare to find people, even in the good old US of A who make a living from blogs.

      @Peter – I should make clear I have nowt to do with the Cardiff Blogs groups and was simply making an observation regarding the name. I do have to say though I think you’re being overly pedantic about the title of the event.

      If you do something for Love rather than Money, but as a happy consequence make money – in my opinion you are still doing it for LOVE and not MONEY.

      For most bloggers a bit of money is a happy, lucky consequence of their work – not a reason for doing it. I genuinely believe that is what has happened with Amy.

      It’s the intention that is being discussed – not the outcome.

      Besides which I’d recommend not getting hung up about the name of interesting things not reflecting exactly what they are.

      Although I will admit – I was watching that film ‘Cloverfield’ the other night and was absolutely dismayed to discover it was about a monster and didn’t feature Clover, or indeed many Fields.

      Posted by Rob Williams (@BobJWilliams) | August 23, 2011, 4:29 pm
  6. Peter. I think you’re being a little pedantic. The motivation for Amy’s blog is love not money. An offshoot of her blog is that she is able to make a few pounds to cover some of her running costs. But it’s not her motivation. So defined in these terms, the event title is valid.

    You could spend a lifetime splitting hairs about the exact wording of marketing slogans but aren’t there more important things to do in life?

    The future’s bright the future’s Orange – Well actually global warming and the death our sun might make the future a little less bright.

    or what about

    Just do it – Just do what. Nike have really left me very confused with this slogan and I really think they should consider changing it.

    Posted by Gourmet Gorro | August 23, 2011, 4:37 pm
  7. Well what an interesting read! 🙂

    It seems to me, Peter, that you are determined to argue about semantics. The simple fact of the matter is, that as Liz says, I categorically do not do this project for the money, which is very little.

    The main reason I wanted to give people the opportunity to buy prints was because people asked me too. You’ll notice that the prints are pretty cheap, so again, I’m not really doing it for much of a profit, especially considering how much time and effort has been put into the project so far.

    I would say that this project is running at a loss. Both in terms of outlay to buy things and by the time I have sacrificed to do this where I could have been pursuing paid work. Therefore, to call it ‘love not profit’ is also inaccurate as I’m making a loss, not covering my costs.

    When I started this project I didn’t imagine it would become popular or have the potential to make any kind of money so I certainly didn’t go into it with that in mind.

    Like I said, I had intended to touch on the money making possibilities that are evidently available during my talk, but I was also going to highlight that one should not expect that to be the outcome.

    This project is very much for love, not money, or, whichever noun you want to use.

    Amy

    Posted by Amy Davies | August 23, 2011, 4:55 pm
    • Hello Amy. Apologies if I have offended, I appreciate you do your project very much for love. My role is a Psychiatrist for teens, and I very much do it for a mix of both, so I can understand passion in role. I just thought the title was a bit of a contradiction. Thank you for remaining polite in discussion when others did not.

      Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 10:44 pm
  8. Just read Bob’s post.

    He sums it up perfectly.

    I am doing this blog FOR the love of it, not FOR the money. I would do this with or without the few quid I get from the print sale, therefore it’s seems obvious that I’m doing it FOR the LOVE.

    Therefore, the title sums it up perfectly.

    Amy

    Posted by amydavies | August 23, 2011, 6:09 pm
  9. It seems the response of this group – most of whom seem to follow each other on the Twitter – is that I have been absurd in considering the name of something to be actually what it meant. Silly old fool I must be! Good luck with the talk everyone, consider common sense chased out of Dodge!

    Posted by Peter H | August 23, 2011, 10:06 pm

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